I’m in the same boat - was very keen on his appointment, was positive about him up until about February when it wouldn’t have pained me to see him sacked but I now would be sad to see him go. I just don’t see who is a better option at the moment - the best option for me is to keep him and try to get some stability and further prigrrss.
Just been looking at the Matchweek 7 PL table which is the weekend of 23 and 24 Sep 2023. From that point onwards, I believe we have had the 4th best points haul -58 points. Spurs had 52 points and Villa 57 points (probably should have been 55 points but for our perfectly good disallowed goal a couple of weeks ago) .
Poch for me has been managing with one arm tied behind his back similar to potter (that's a different opinion) i want to see Poch given another season and a transfer window and a opportunity to work with a fit squad, also I'm so used to us now axeing a manager after 2 seasons sometimes one, that i would like to see us build something long term, the plan maybe to get poch for 2 years and build the youth etc and then another manager to come in after that for stage 2 either way i think it would be a backward step to remove Poch, however I'm not 100% convinced on his actions that he wants to stay, -
I agree with you Luke,about the managerial merry go round, needing to be halted !
We all know that one of the reasons we can't get the likes of Klopp, or Pep, regardless of what people may think of them individually,is our historical quick trigger with Managers, and another such firing, could lead to us not getting who we really need or want, for years to come.
From the Apocalyptic Arsenal match, to still reach 6th,and be that close to Spurs,secure a European spot, with a fairly challenging end of the season schedule, the players must really like Potch', and that can't be taken lightly at Chelsea,with our recent past history, of alleged player revolts in the Clubhouse,even though we succeeded, in spite of the high turnover of bench bosses !!!
That well, is likely to have dried up with this new generation of professionals !
I'm not basing my opinion on those 5 wins just a Overall season. Plus Liverpool at home Man city game Villa in the cup arsenal at home We have improved from last season we will have continue to build and for me next season a champions league spot would be a big achievement with maybe a domestic cup win and a good run in Europe depending on which one we end up in :-)
I don't think we are anywhere near top 3 with any coach we were 20pts off 3rd - I've always rated Poch and i think its going to take more than one season with brand new squad and owners and infrastructure to build momentum i actually think 6th place a semi final and final we over performed given the media circus and critism constantly, imagine how well we may have gone if we had the whole fan base behind him.
Liverpool have a new manager and will be in a transition season. We are better than Tottenham, man United are awful. If you think villa are better than us then damn.
Poch has really fooled our fan base into thinking we are awful man, sad to see
No where near the amount of injuries in the last 5 games he has had a full squad To choose from
That's where i disagree this side is not good enough for top 4 this season or even next until they build experience the last 5 games has been as a result of Momentum of a side starting to click and that's down to Poch, not suddenly players fit I've lost count of the back 4 combinations he has had to put together v having consistant squad
So on one hand you don't think Poch is good enough but on the other hand he would have been good
Enough to get us to top 4, - top 4 was never achieveable and i don't any Chelsea fans with those expectations for first season and the injuries we had 57.
I'm saying our team is good enough to get top 4. It has to be the target.
We've had injuries yet the last 5 games we've won, the starting 11 that played were available during the season, he just never played them. That's on him.
Top 4 which I feel was definitely achievable. If he didn't use Chilwell as a LW, or play Gallagher in the 10, or persist with Sterling, or not use the same tactics in pre season until the end of the season, we would have got it.
Villa are better than us they finished higher if we were better than them we wouldn't be 6th -no one is saying the team is bad or we are awful I've been to lot of the games this season and if you have you would see we are transitioning you don't instantly become a team it takes time and patience
I don't really feel any of the "options" out there are any less of a gamble. I totally agree with sentiments about what change and upheaval could mean for a young team who (whilst absolutely can improve) look like they are starting to settle. The PL is tougher than ever and there are some other teams slightly further down the table who are starting to hit form or who may get a form bounce for the new season, do we really want to face that with another new manager and a disrupted pre-season? Genuinely don't know, but certainly don't think pulling the trigger is the answer either.
My sentiments entirely. The last few results have given us hope for a better next season. Who knows but we do know keep changing things again and again and it’s painful.
We were terrible for most the season, but credit to him for finally turning it around with the tactical switch. I'm still not fully sold on Poch, so it wouldn't really pain me if he went, my only concern is the recruitment teams ability to put the correct manager in place. I'm not sold on the thought that there isn't a better option out there at the moment, as realistically before Xabi Alonso joined Leverkusen everyone would've been kicking off at his appointment, and now a lot of people would love him.
Terrible is slightly extreme in my view mate, the first 10 games were pretty poor after that our form merited a 4th placed finish, I am far from fully sold right now on Poch just think he is the best current option given he has already had a year at the club and has the full backing of the players. Agree sometimes it is worth taking a risk and hindsight is great when appointing a manager, can easily be successful but could flop just as easily.
Luke nice report the reality is sometimes you’ve just got to keep believing.
At the end of the day I’d remind everyone of the last up and coming Chelsea manager we recruited with little experience Andre villa boas and how well that went!
Those 5 wins were against Spurs at home, West Ham at home, Forest away, Brighton away, and Bournemouth at home.
Is there anyone amongst those 5 teams that we weren't expected to beat? Certainly Brighton, Bournemouth and West Ham had very little to play for at the end of the season
I clearly state in this article I am basing it off the entire season, there were many ups and downs but the facts remain that we started slowly as most teams do under a new manager and with that amount of change, after the first 10 games our form puts us 4th in the entire division, for a squad having their first season together with a new manager, culture etc, I personally am content with a 6th placed finish, a couple of trips to Wembley, European football and the ability to progress on that next season under the same manager.
There's no doubting thay recency bias is dominating people's thoughts on him staying. It wasn't long ago that we got embarrassed by Arsenal, drew with 10-man Burnley, drew with bottom-placed Steffield United, and blew an FA cup semi final
There no doubt it is considered because regardless of it being the last 5 games it is still part of our session which is what I am summarising!
We did get embarrassed by Arsenal, 2 and a half years ago Arsenal got walloped 6-0 by City, since then have had back to back 2nd placed finishes and learnt from it with a young team……
Blowing the FA Cup final was not on Poch, he set us up perfectly in that game and that came down to individuals not being able to take their chances, also why we didn’t win the Carabao Cup this season, these things come over time.
Where would you go from here then Alex? Would you sack Poch? Who would replace him? How would you progress the team/club and move us forward?
Granted, Jackson missing a hat trick of easy chances in the FA cup semi final was costly. But where was the game management from Pochettino? 79th minute until the 1st substitution and then two reactive changes in the 88th minute after City had taken the lead. Plus he was playing Enzo, who we have since learned was completely broken. These are all Pochettino's decisions.
In terms of moving forward, I would part company with Pochettino. Seems like he's been pushing for an exit anyway, given his press conferences.
Amorim interests me because he successfully plays 3 at the back, which is an ideal formation for the personnel we already have.
Flick would be the other one:
1) he's the 2nd manager to have ever won the treble at Bayern so, by definition, is a winner
2) he's managed big egos and a huge club
3) he's promoted academy players to the 1st team, eg Musiala and Coman
4) speaks fluent English
We can talk about corporate words like "process", "culture" and "brand", but nothing will be the catalyst for results and silverware than having the right manager in place
Hi Alex how many times in the last 2 or 3 years did we say we expect to beat team abc and then lose in my mind all the hard work culminated in those 5 or 6 matches and it wasn’t a fluke
Hi Andy, I haven't counted but I haven't been prepared to give our team excuses for defeat. When the season is all done, the final league position seldom lies
I work in a cyclical business highs and lows average out and Chelsea had been on a boom track for many years this was an overdue reset.
The new owners have made many mistakes one of which is seemingly to make the sporting directors fire proof and not to get the blend of new players right in experience terms.
In addition they haven’t managed expectations by seemingly targeting champions league football this year with a team many of whom could be playing in the u23s.
Take into account a lack of perceived support for the manager who needed a certain type of player to strengthen the team and effectively putting the spine of the team up for sale all season what the team and Poche achieved was miraculous.
The situation with Egbali & the sporting directors as I look in from the outside appears toxic no manager worth their weight in Gold would want the job.
I’m in the same boat - was very keen on his appointment, was positive about him up until about February when it wouldn’t have pained me to see him sacked but I now would be sad to see him go. I just don’t see who is a better option at the moment - the best option for me is to keep him and try to get some stability and further prigrrss.
Completely agree mate
Just been looking at the Matchweek 7 PL table which is the weekend of 23 and 24 Sep 2023. From that point onwards, I believe we have had the 4th best points haul -58 points. Spurs had 52 points and Villa 57 points (probably should have been 55 points but for our perfectly good disallowed goal a couple of weeks ago) .
Completely correct in my view mate
Poch for me has been managing with one arm tied behind his back similar to potter (that's a different opinion) i want to see Poch given another season and a transfer window and a opportunity to work with a fit squad, also I'm so used to us now axeing a manager after 2 seasons sometimes one, that i would like to see us build something long term, the plan maybe to get poch for 2 years and build the youth etc and then another manager to come in after that for stage 2 either way i think it would be a backward step to remove Poch, however I'm not 100% convinced on his actions that he wants to stay, -
I agree with you Luke,about the managerial merry go round, needing to be halted !
We all know that one of the reasons we can't get the likes of Klopp, or Pep, regardless of what people may think of them individually,is our historical quick trigger with Managers, and another such firing, could lead to us not getting who we really need or want, for years to come.
From the Apocalyptic Arsenal match, to still reach 6th,and be that close to Spurs,secure a European spot, with a fairly challenging end of the season schedule, the players must really like Potch', and that can't be taken lightly at Chelsea,with our recent past history, of alleged player revolts in the Clubhouse,even though we succeeded, in spite of the high turnover of bench bosses !!!
That well, is likely to have dried up with this new generation of professionals !
I'm not basing my opinion on those 5 wins just a Overall season. Plus Liverpool at home Man city game Villa in the cup arsenal at home We have improved from last season we will have continue to build and for me next season a champions league spot would be a big achievement with maybe a domestic cup win and a good run in Europe depending on which one we end up in :-)
The only reason why we should maybe decide to keep Poch is who his replacement might be.
I don't know why everyone suddenly rates him. We've done well in our last 5 games but it shows if he done it earlier we would have got top 4 easily.
Also once Chilwell, Enzo come back. Is he going to play Chilwell on the wing again? Is he going to play Gallagher in the 10 again?
Our team is not as bad as everyone made out to be. We needed coaching and the one time he showed it we won 5 in a row.
I personally hope we get rid, and get a actual coach. The target next season has to be top 3, I don't think Poch can get that
So that shows Poch has the capabilities then?
I don't think we are anywhere near top 3 with any coach we were 20pts off 3rd - I've always rated Poch and i think its going to take more than one season with brand new squad and owners and infrastructure to build momentum i actually think 6th place a semi final and final we over performed given the media circus and critism constantly, imagine how well we may have gone if we had the whole fan base behind him.
Liverpool have a new manager and will be in a transition season. We are better than Tottenham, man United are awful. If you think villa are better than us then damn.
Poch has really fooled our fan base into thinking we are awful man, sad to see
We've had
No where near the amount of injuries in the last 5 games he has had a full squad To choose from
That's where i disagree this side is not good enough for top 4 this season or even next until they build experience the last 5 games has been as a result of Momentum of a side starting to click and that's down to Poch, not suddenly players fit I've lost count of the back 4 combinations he has had to put together v having consistant squad
Which players that have been injured through the season have been available to start during the last 5 games?
So on one hand you don't think Poch is good enough but on the other hand he would have been good
Enough to get us to top 4, - top 4 was never achieveable and i don't any Chelsea fans with those expectations for first season and the injuries we had 57.
I'm saying our team is good enough to get top 4. It has to be the target.
We've had injuries yet the last 5 games we've won, the starting 11 that played were available during the season, he just never played them. That's on him.
Where did you expect us to finish or achieve this season btw ?
Top 4 which I feel was definitely achievable. If he didn't use Chilwell as a LW, or play Gallagher in the 10, or persist with Sterling, or not use the same tactics in pre season until the end of the season, we would have got it.
Villa are better than us they finished higher if we were better than them we wouldn't be 6th -no one is saying the team is bad or we are awful I've been to lot of the games this season and if you have you would see we are transitioning you don't instantly become a team it takes time and patience
We used a style of play and won 5 in a row. Most of the season he didn't use the tactics we used in pre season
If we don't target top 3 next season, then what's the actual point of our 'project'? We need to make progress and top 3 is a very realistic target
I don't really feel any of the "options" out there are any less of a gamble. I totally agree with sentiments about what change and upheaval could mean for a young team who (whilst absolutely can improve) look like they are starting to settle. The PL is tougher than ever and there are some other teams slightly further down the table who are starting to hit form or who may get a form bounce for the new season, do we really want to face that with another new manager and a disrupted pre-season? Genuinely don't know, but certainly don't think pulling the trigger is the answer either.
*progress
My sentiments entirely. The last few results have given us hope for a better next season. Who knows but we do know keep changing things again and again and it’s painful.
We were terrible for most the season, but credit to him for finally turning it around with the tactical switch. I'm still not fully sold on Poch, so it wouldn't really pain me if he went, my only concern is the recruitment teams ability to put the correct manager in place. I'm not sold on the thought that there isn't a better option out there at the moment, as realistically before Xabi Alonso joined Leverkusen everyone would've been kicking off at his appointment, and now a lot of people would love him.
Terrible is slightly extreme in my view mate, the first 10 games were pretty poor after that our form merited a 4th placed finish, I am far from fully sold right now on Poch just think he is the best current option given he has already had a year at the club and has the full backing of the players. Agree sometimes it is worth taking a risk and hindsight is great when appointing a manager, can easily be successful but could flop just as easily.
Spot on Luke
Luke nice report the reality is sometimes you’ve just got to keep believing.
At the end of the day I’d remind everyone of the last up and coming Chelsea manager we recruited with little experience Andre villa boas and how well that went!
This team and manager can challenge next year
I don’t see keeping poch as any less risk than appointing someone else. I fear that he stays and come December we sack him with less option
Who would you say the options are now Danny?
Those 5 wins were against Spurs at home, West Ham at home, Forest away, Brighton away, and Bournemouth at home.
Is there anyone amongst those 5 teams that we weren't expected to beat? Certainly Brighton, Bournemouth and West Ham had very little to play for at the end of the season
Is that relevant really Alex, nobody can deny we looked a lot better, a team and culture is starting to form?
Yes it is, because people are basing their assessments on those 5 wins and not the entire campaign
I clearly state in this article I am basing it off the entire season, there were many ups and downs but the facts remain that we started slowly as most teams do under a new manager and with that amount of change, after the first 10 games our form puts us 4th in the entire division, for a squad having their first season together with a new manager, culture etc, I personally am content with a 6th placed finish, a couple of trips to Wembley, European football and the ability to progress on that next season under the same manager.
There's no doubting thay recency bias is dominating people's thoughts on him staying. It wasn't long ago that we got embarrassed by Arsenal, drew with 10-man Burnley, drew with bottom-placed Steffield United, and blew an FA cup semi final
There no doubt it is considered because regardless of it being the last 5 games it is still part of our session which is what I am summarising!
We did get embarrassed by Arsenal, 2 and a half years ago Arsenal got walloped 6-0 by City, since then have had back to back 2nd placed finishes and learnt from it with a young team……
Blowing the FA Cup final was not on Poch, he set us up perfectly in that game and that came down to individuals not being able to take their chances, also why we didn’t win the Carabao Cup this season, these things come over time.
Where would you go from here then Alex? Would you sack Poch? Who would replace him? How would you progress the team/club and move us forward?
Granted, Jackson missing a hat trick of easy chances in the FA cup semi final was costly. But where was the game management from Pochettino? 79th minute until the 1st substitution and then two reactive changes in the 88th minute after City had taken the lead. Plus he was playing Enzo, who we have since learned was completely broken. These are all Pochettino's decisions.
In terms of moving forward, I would part company with Pochettino. Seems like he's been pushing for an exit anyway, given his press conferences.
Amorim interests me because he successfully plays 3 at the back, which is an ideal formation for the personnel we already have.
Flick would be the other one:
1) he's the 2nd manager to have ever won the treble at Bayern so, by definition, is a winner
2) he's managed big egos and a huge club
3) he's promoted academy players to the 1st team, eg Musiala and Coman
4) speaks fluent English
We can talk about corporate words like "process", "culture" and "brand", but nothing will be the catalyst for results and silverware than having the right manager in place
Hi Alex how many times in the last 2 or 3 years did we say we expect to beat team abc and then lose in my mind all the hard work culminated in those 5 or 6 matches and it wasn’t a fluke
Hi Andy, I haven't counted but I haven't been prepared to give our team excuses for defeat. When the season is all done, the final league position seldom lies
It certainly didn’t last year so this year seeks to be a success in comparison
You're comparing this season from an incredibly low bar
I work in a cyclical business highs and lows average out and Chelsea had been on a boom track for many years this was an overdue reset.
The new owners have made many mistakes one of which is seemingly to make the sporting directors fire proof and not to get the blend of new players right in experience terms.
In addition they haven’t managed expectations by seemingly targeting champions league football this year with a team many of whom could be playing in the u23s.
Take into account a lack of perceived support for the manager who needed a certain type of player to strengthen the team and effectively putting the spine of the team up for sale all season what the team and Poche achieved was miraculous.
The situation with Egbali & the sporting directors as I look in from the outside appears toxic no manager worth their weight in Gold would want the job.
Granted, recruitment has been questionable since the owners came.
But the owners aren't responsible for the fitness of the players, the selection of the starting line up, and the in game management
Ultimately no one is bigger than the club 👍
Spot on Luke
The ownership has not done itself any favours they need to lay out the vision to the fans.
Maybe they think they have done that but I cant see it... accepting chats by Todd to investors meetings.
1/ Committee running a team never works, there are splits in the camp always
2/ Sporting Directors will say we did our job, yes we looked like Brighton for a while.
3/ Poch did himself no favours at times, No connection with fans, not see to try that either, job looks massive this season lots of injuries
4/ Still lack a striker, if this is the window on a 4 window rebuild has to come now.
5/ Our spine is weak, I cant see Mosses and Enzo working
6/ We need a left back that plays
7/ Bless him Muddy is a child in understanding the game
6/ Academy players are the heart beat, Conner Trev James